Angel "Sanctuary" 1x19 Reaction

Someone posted a specific Angel spoiler that was apparently similar to something that happens in TVD and marked it as a spoiler. It was promptly deleted, and I hope that Steven didn't see it. That's what the spoiler discussion was about. :)

Rachael

I’d LOVE more Angel reaction videos!! Your reaction to these Faith episodes of Angel are like my favorite vids so far (except for maybe some of your Firefly vids)

I will not hold it against you that you like VD better. I watched the first three seasons of VD before I bailed.

Allan Cornett

I haven't seen any spoilers. Saying that watching VD first will spoil Angel by it copying Angel storylines is a fact. My apologies if that is not what you are referring to. I read the majority of comments and people here have been great about avoiding spoilers.

Allan Cornett

Ryan you didn't spoil anything. Anyone who watched VD before Angel will be spoiled. The reactor After Show Reactions was very upset over that very fact.

Allan Cornett

He was only shocked in that he didn't think they would do it, he also seemed to agree with Angel it was more than deserved and not unreasonable at all. I am glad they pull away from Buffy as much as possible even during crossovers. As much as I liked Buffy the show and think some of the episodes are amazing, Angel is a big step up in almost every way from topics covered, how well they cover them, the writing, atmosphere of the show, and moral concepts. The only reason this crossover works is because it was one of the more interesting characters on Buffy, Buffy herself coming in just shows how much that show really drags Angel down in most cases though. It would have been a terrible mistake to not elevate him so they never have to be relative to the other show again, it was a big call that saved Angel potentially entering mediocrity.

MichaelB

I absolutely loved Steven's reaction to Angel hitting Buffy. Steven automatically covered his agape mouth. I'm used to people, be it reactors or podcasters, acting like Buffy was out of line for looking shocked, when this is clearly a different situation. You can chalk it up to "protagonist privilege" if you like. Joss wrote the Buffy scenes because Tim Minear didn't feel comfortable writing Buffy, so blame it on him.

Rachael

I also think it's really important to see how Angel treated Faith one night after beating, cutting, and burning Weaselly- and compare that to how he treats other "gray" characters in the future.

I wish the show would have humbled Angel more here. He was ultimately proven right in helping Faith but I wish that there would have been more ambiguity in the arguments. Angel is the protagonist and so it makes sense that he gets a lot of hero shots but the show so far doesn't really like him being wrong or weak. Having Buffy on is a chance to show to equally important characters and maybe give them both complex arguments neither being 100% right or wrong. But even in physicality Angel says Buffy is stronger than him so the show can excuse the hero giving his ex-girlfriend a bloody lip but notice Buffy didn't cause him to bleed. And then the action of the show has Buffy barely able to take on a human while Angel flies through skylights for these hero shots. Even back in I Will Remember You when Angel was human he was fighting almost as well as Buffy and had to be the one to know how to kill the demon. I think it shows a lack of trust in the writing of this character.

One thing that bugged me about Angel was that Buffy asked him at least twice if he knew what Faith did, and Angel was evasive. I don't know what Giles told him. "Giles just said it was rough." And Angel was surprised about the Riley thing. So between Angel still stinging from IWRY, which Buffy doesn't remember, and Buffy being hurt because she thinks that Angel knows what happened, when I don't think he does, it leads to Buffy pausing at the end and being deliberately cruel to Angel so he can hurt like she is. It's not pretty, and it feels OOC for Buffy to be deliberately cruel to someone, but it's a realistic fight.

Rachael

Even though Buffy said she has a right to want vengeance, what she advocated for was the same thing that Wesley wanted: jail, which is justice, not vengeance. Angel had apparently agreed somewhat. Wesley: "Yes, you were right. The police would be ill equipped to hold a Slayer against her will. I understand why you chose not to turn her over to them." While I do not think it would benefit anyone to have Faith waste away in prison indefinitely, I do think she needs a place away from constant chaos and killing so she can get some stability and heal, and hopefully she can get some psychological care because she's still experiencing psychotic breaks. What is important is that Faith made the choice herself.

Rachael

No, I totally get it. I don’t think Buffy was wrong for wanting vengeance at all. I really find the Angel/Buffy argument compelling in soooo many ways. It’s soo good.

Fizzy

Hahaha, I was just passionate. It's just that I've seen tons of Buffy watchers bash Buffy in this episode and people downplaying what Faith has done to her. Everyone gets so self-righteous as if Buffy is somehow a bad person for wanting vengeance.

Joshua L Davis

he doesn't really have modes, but he is going to need them really soon the signs are already there

o

Please no spoilers here, even if marked as spoilers. Steven reads these, and I don't know if he has mods.

Rachael

Honestly, I like TVD more than Angel, but I totally agree that it has definitely copied the show on more than one occasion , but I will say that Angel and Buffy has been such a big influence on a lot of supernatural shows so similarities are most likely going to happen.

Ryan Pulliam

That is because VD ripped off Angel many times. If you watch VD before Angel it will literally spoil some Angel episodes.

Allan Cornett

Angel>>>>>> Stefan tbh even though I do like Stefan.

Fizzy

You are 100% right. She had every right, but Angel also had a point. He was trying to save Faith’s soul, and Buffy was trying to make Angel feel guilty for comforting her. She has a boyfriend so why should she even care. Buffy had a personal vendetta, which she was entitled too because Faith raped her boyfriend and violated her body. She was 100% justified. I understand both of their point of views at the end though. She brought up Riley to hurt Angel because she was jealous about Faith. Angel apologizes to her too in the next episode. All I was saying was that I understood where they were both coming from. It was a well written fight. Both of them had points. Idk why your getting so worked up. Buffy 100% had a right to be mad with Faith and had very right to seek justice, but her anger with Angel is unjustified. He was just trying to help her. Both characters are sooo flawed and that’s what I love about them.

Fizzy

Agree, Buffys anger is justifyed!

Mariella Nilsson

I was anxious about not seeing any Angel but then suddenly, on Saturday morning, I remembered about the viewing guide and figured that was the reason. I hope I didn't come off angry in either of my posts about it because I promise I wasn't. lol

Stephanie Bedworth

Faith slept with her boyfriend? Uh, what about raped her boyfriend? Punched her mom in the face? Tried to get her take the fall for murder? Stole her body? Tried to kill her friends? And you reduced all of that to Faith slept with her boyfriend? Are you serious? Buffy had every right to KILL Faith if she wanted to. She had every RIGHT TO VENGEANCE. I don't understand your point of view at all. Nothing wrong with vengeance at all! Buffy was right.

Joshua L Davis

The parallel between Angel and Stefan Salvatore is insane!

Ryan Pulliam

I used to think that this episode was overstuffed, and I was annoyed that we didn’t get more of Faith and Angel just talking, but I can see how the writers would think that would slow the story down. Faith is seeing the consequences of just some of her actions: Buffy, Wesley, W&H, the police, and the Watchers Council, and while the chaos is whirling around her, she sees that people she victimized are still trying to help her, Faith ultimately makes her own choice. She turns herself in, which is huge. I love the visual callback to shell-shocked Faith escaping by train in “Who Are You?” with a now peaceful Faith sitting in her jail cell. Faith is such a compelling character, and I love her so much.

Rachael

Love this arc starting at Buffy and ending here! Brilliant!

Phoenix Dawn

Glad to hear the watch order helped make the episode order make sense. I agree with sort of judging the two episodes together because they really are a two-hour episode. EDIT: Someone probably mentioned it but she's murdered at least two people. Actually the first one was probably manslaughter. But the professor was in cold blood. "I'll scream!" "... Who wouldn't?"

J.D.

Bye. Be safe.

Allan Cornett

From the Joss Wheaton blogspot. Although we believe these two TV shows are best viewed side by side, some viewers prefer watching long stretches of one show before switching back to the other. So it’s just a matter of preference.

o

I’m sad that Cordelia left in the beginning. I would have loved to seen her and Buffy interact. I get it though, there was already so much stuff going on in this episode.

Fizzy

That Buffy/Angel fight in the end is so powerful. I actually agreed with Angel. Buffy was definitely looking for vengeance against Faith, and that’s why she came looking. The acting was so good between them. You could feel the tension. Buffy is my favorite character, but I like that they made her a bit flawed in that fight. She was being petty, but I get it. Faith slept with her boyfriend.

Fizzy

I don’t talk down to you. My opinions seem to make you uncomfortable. Too bad. He doesn’t enjoy it more one way or the other. He is going along with what most of the fans want . That’s good business. Please stalk someone else.

Allan Cornett

yes and he enjoys it one way and you want it the other, thank you for finally getting it.

o

Nope. If I still want to comment in a timely manner when everyone else is commenting I don’t have a choice. I’m not your bro. Be safe.

Allan Cornett

From the Joss Wheaton blogspot. Although we believe these two TV shows are best viewed side by side, some viewers prefer watching long stretches of one show before switching back to the other. So it’s just a matter of preference.

Allan Cornett

Nope. There is no proof of that. That is an opinion and we disagree. Be safe.

Allan Cornett

I will try this a different way those 5 episodes of Buffy, were 7 days long equal to the time, between "Eternity" and "Five by Five" on Angel. In all these 7 episodes would have occurred in the same week according to the timeline on the show. so your linear is not the shows linear.

o

I'm on Angel's side this time and that Is very rare for me because I don't really like Angel. In this ep Buffy hurted Angel just because she was jealous. I think she likes Riley but she is not in love with him, she is still in love with Angel at this point.

Irene Cuartas

I still disagree with the watch order. I know it's not going to change. After the Buffy episode , Who are you, episode16, there are two episodes of Angel before Faith shows up. In a normal watch order the Faith arc would not have continued immediately after she left Sunnydale. That destoys part of the reason for using the current watch order. The other reason to avoid spoilers that I understand. No one has ever shown me that either show was spoiled by watching in the normal order.

Allan Cornett

Oh yeah and I wanted to add you might want to purposefully avoid looking at guest star credits at the beginning because it really would have spoiled you on Buffy had you caught that one, and you never know in the future with shows where that kind of thing might spoil something for you. Maybe just don't pay attention to the credits until the end. Just a suggestion.

Jayna

Another awesome episode. I think they handled the Faith situation really well. It's a realistic progression. Doing the things she's done definitely would make a messy, complicated situation for her and others around her. I also love how stand up Wesley was, and the intensity between Buffy and Angel. All handled amazingly. And yeah, I think the guide you're using for watch order works too. Definitely stick with it.

Jayna

What about the guy in the beginning of 5x5? Angel got into his apartment without an invite so I figured he died too.

Bisibia

Hey man... just wanted to say thank you for rushing these out a bit. It was really nice of you.

Bisibia

I had to wait to get here to comment this is what the Slayer guide,, presents as a gift you are giving (3) "Series Arc" endings at the end of this season, the Faith story arc which combines both Universes, the Buffy Finale, and the Angel Finale, back to back to back, there is a reason for the slayer guide being the way it is.

o

Faith, I believe, has murdered three people. The deputy mayor, the guy who was cuffed to the case containing all those spiders the mayor had to ingest, and that professor who was a volcanologist in the season 3 finale.

TheyCallMeJeff

I like Kate and Wolfram and Hart, the council guys...meh, but necessary for Wesley to be all cool

o

I am sorry, I give this a 10 as well because it continues the arc and completes it in a fantastic way, I love how they play off one another, I am upset, that they get rid of Cordy again. I love the fact that Angel is so invested because this was him. Cordy's bruise make me sad.

o

I really appreciate the effort you put into avoiding spoilers. This and Five by Five are two of my favorite episodes of season one. Faith is such a compelling character. I love the cross over episodes. STAY SAFE

Allan Cornett